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Ducati Multistrada 1000DS cranks over but won't fire up ?

 
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Ste7


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PostPosted: Mon 24 Jul - 19:34 (2017)    Post subject: Ducati Multistrada 1000DS cranks over but won't fire up ? Reply with quote

Hi new member here with a Ducati Multistrada 1000DS that cranks over but will not fire up/start. New battery fitted, new Hi Cap cables fitted, starter motor overhauled, TPS reset. Still wont start unless a bit of throttle is applied then it might catch. Runs great when it starts, ticks over and pulls cleanly. Anybody any ideas what  could be causing the problem ?

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L_Martin
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Bike / Moto: Multistrada 1100 200

PostPosted: Wed 6 Jun - 23:46 (2018)    Post subject: Ducati Multistrada 1000DS cranks over but won't fire up ? Reply with quote

Ste7 wrote:
Hi new member here with a Ducati Multistrada 1000DS that cranks over but will not fire up/start. New battery fitted, new Hi Cap cables fitted, starter motor overhauled, TPS reset. Still wont start unless a bit of throttle is applied then it might catch. Runs great when it starts, ticks over and pulls cleanly. Anybody any ideas what  could be causing the problem ?


Hi Ste7, any update from your issue, I'm facing same on my MTS1100 2008. wondering ifit is ECU, because everything else is checked and fine.


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riderlogic
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PostPosted: Sat 9 Jun - 12:26 (2018)    Post subject: Ducati Multistrada 1000DS cranks over but won't fire up ? Reply with quote

Do you see the tacho move as you are cranking?

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L_Martin
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PostPosted: Sat 9 Jun - 14:31 (2018)    Post subject: Ducati Multistrada 1000DS cranks over but won't fire up ? Reply with quote

riderlogic wrote:
Do you see the tacho move as you are cranking?


I didn't look at this, after reassembling will check.
I bought mine wit 14k km, now its around 18k. I almost never start at the first crank, but was getting worse everytime. last months it would only star at WOT. then became to presente backfire during cranking, so I stop using it. I'm really busi so couldn't pay too much attention. This week I start checking everything:

*When cranking with a external sparkplug connected to coil  there is a loto of miss sparks,  so I first check crankspeed sensor, seems ok, but to confirm I bought a new one, same issue.
Later I check all the wiring, from battery to coil, to ECU, etc, relays and fuses, no problem at all.
I try crank with the voltage regulator unconected, no change.
Checked the grounds, also seems to be fine, but I noticed the pins 10 and 35 on chassis conector had no ground wire, My ECU IAW5AM is ground on its cage, and this pins are grounded to cage, but anyway I add two wires to this pins, no change at all.
Checked again the spark plugs with a Megometer and found all of them bad. Place new spark plugs and still the same behaviour. I found later that the sparkplugs wetted with gasoline are shortenned and there is no spark, after drying them became good again.
Remove the fuel tank and change the coil, (Ifound two coil from a Hyundai on my workshop that fits) nothing different. 
Checked the compression pressure, its arou 145 PSI on Horizontal and 148 PSI on the vertical cylinder. I'm 900 meters high from ocean.
Absolute pressure is correct.

*But cranking without the airbox, I noticed that only the horizontal cylinder receive a HUGE amount of fuel during crank, and this is the cylinder with backfire. 
But strange is that before disassembling  the bike, I try crank with a cylinder coil plug disconnected (to check spark in a external sparkplug) and foun that it Works with only the vertical cylinder unconnected, but don't with only the horizontal one.
Checked the injectors for leak, and no problem, they clean and fine, so the ECU is driving this huge fuel flow.

In the past I found also that leaving the engine on idle for around 10 minutes (checking behavior on scanner and with a scope) the exhaust pipe get glow (at night it was very visible). and il reach 140º around 15 min running stopped.


Would reflash solve this? or could be hardware problem, any suggestion?

Could be catalyst melted? I didn't remove it, but take the CO plugs out to relief back pressure and nothing change. Lambda sensor Works fine also.

I don't know what to do else.

I have a workshop for race cars, so have a lot of tool  to use, some experience also, but this is becaming really challenging!

I'm addind a printscreen from the scanner with the bike running, I found really strange the Timming advance, is it value of 6550º correct? 

 
Anyone had face same isso in the past, I search exaustivelly on this fórum and also Ducati.ms, but found nothing. I also bought A second hand ECU from a Hyper 2009, but didn't arrive yet. 




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PostPosted: Sat 9 Jun - 14:51 (2018)    Post subject: Ducati Multistrada 1000DS cranks over but won't fire up ? Reply with quote

when engine is running , it may crash or get a lot of junk data with those cheap cables

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L_Martin
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PostPosted: Sat 9 Jun - 21:41 (2018)    Post subject: Ducati Multistrada 1000DS cranks over but won't fire up ? Reply with quote

Well, I assembled  the throtle body and injectors again, and test, there is no movement on tacho while cranking!
Anybody knows about IMMO, if it cut the battery + or else it tel to ecu to not drive the signal to coils?
Because I could place the scope on coils and found Bat+ Always on during cranking, but not the signal from ECU, when ECU drives a signal engine fire up immediately!
But it almost never drives the coil...


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Jun - 20:35 (2018)    Post subject: Ducati Multistrada 1000DS cranks over but won't fire up ? Reply with quote

kill ,neutral,clutch ,stand side switch can cut off the spark.you damaged the spark plungs becouse grouneded the coils
Coils ,injector ,fuel pump gets always volts (11,5) from ignition relay ,check the wiring diagram http://mts.bijna-online.be/wsm/en/home.html


i think your problem is bad ground to ecu or bad starter motor,clear well ground cable (near of  crankspeed sensor),Also check the little earth fly lead onto the ECU. Check for damage and also clean with emery paper. Put it back under the bolt on the ECU. Consider taking the ECU out and separating it from the heat sink.(from ducati uk forum) https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/threads/faulty-jpdiag.58155/ .
try with sorted kill switch,also disconnect the neutral switch cable and ground it in engine case.When press start buttom pull and chutch.
for bad starter motor try to give volts with second battery(only in starter motor,disconnect it from main bike battery)
when you test coils ,injectors ,pump with jpdiag software what happend???have you spark?



on your screenshot???


Last edited by achilleasds on Mon 11 Jun - 12:09 (2018); edited 1 time in total
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riderlogic
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PostPosted: Mon 11 Jun - 10:51 (2018)    Post subject: Ducati Multistrada 1000DS cranks over but won't fire up ? Reply with quote

If you have a scope, do you get signal on crank angle sensor when cranking.

ECM will supply fuel pump power for 3 seconds on key on, then it will supply again when it sees cranking pulse.  Maybe a test light on fuel pump relay when cranking as well - then again you state you get heaps of fuel during cranking.

It's very possible from ground issue.  common in these old bikes.  Also common for bad connectors as well.


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L_Martin
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PostPosted: Mon 11 Jun - 18:10 (2018)    Post subject: Ducati Multistrada 1000DS cranks over but won't fire up ? Reply with quote

riderlogic wrote:
If you have a scope, do you get signal on crank angle sensor when cranking.

ECM will supply fuel pump power for 3 seconds on key on, then it will supply again when it sees cranking pulse.  Maybe a test light on fuel pump relay when cranking as well - then again you state you get heaps of fuel during cranking.

It's very possible from ground issue.  common in these old bikes.  Also common for bad connectors as well.





Yes, I've check, there is signal, bad signal, with a lot of noise and distortion, but there it is. And fuel pump relay is on when cranking, I measure coil + , it receives 11.4V while cranking.


Sure it is a Ground issue, but I couldn't realize where it is... now things are becoming clear


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PostPosted: Mon 11 Jun - 18:22 (2018)    Post subject: Ducati Multistrada 1000DS cranks over but won't fire up ? Reply with quote

achilleasds wrote:
kill ,neutral,clutch ,stand side switch can cut off the spark.you damaged the spark plungs becouse grouneded the coils
Coils ,injector ,fuel pump gets always volts (11,5) from ignition relay ,check the wiring diagram http://mts.bijna-online.be/wsm/en/home.html


i think your problem is bad ground to ecu or bad starter motor,clear well ground cable (near of  crankspeed sensor),Also check the little earth fly lead onto the ECU. Check for damage and also clean with emery paper. Put it back under the bolt on the ECU. Consider taking the ECU out and separating it from the heat sink.(from ducati uk forum) https://www.ducatiforum.co.uk/threads/faulty-jpdiag.58155/ .
try with sorted kill switch,also disconnect the neutral switch cable and ground it in engine case.When press start buttom pull and chutch.
for bad starter motor try to give volts with second battery(only in starter motor,disconnect it from main bike battery)
when you test coils ,injectors ,pump with jpdiag software what happend???have you spark?



on your screenshot???



Great support, I haven't noticed the heat sink coul be removed, makes a lot of sense, hope there is the issue!
I'm in a work trip now, Thursday will be back and check it!


The separate battery for starter I've already tested, doesn't change the behaviour.
Will check the kill-stand-neutral-clutch swtich system also, thank you for the diagram.


I also doesn't understand why the kill seems off on jpdiag, maybe my VAG cable is poor quality. I also never could run the actuators tests, maybe my procedure is wrong. Will test again when back.
I get really excited with your feedback, hope this be my case!
Thank you!


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riderlogic
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PostPosted: Thu 14 Jun - 11:37 (2018)    Post subject: Ducati Multistrada 1000DS cranks over but won't fire up ? Reply with quote

A bad earth or floating earth can actually raise the voltage of some sensors.  So if there is a sensor that is supply current directly to earth, then it can float all the sensors on that earth point up in voltage.

Check all of your connectors for corrosion.


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PostPosted: Today at 14:45 (2018)    Post subject: Ducati Multistrada 1000DS cranks over but won't fire up ?

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